If you believe that Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked, you will likely compare Putin to Hitler and will likely oppose President Trump’s peace negotiations with Russia. After all, if Putin’s invasion was unprovoked, a settlement would reward naked aggression and would be akin to Neville Chamberlain’s 1938 appeasement…
The only concrete assertion I see in this linked wall of text is:
Ukrainians are "dominated in their thinking by neo-Nazis”
…Which is false. And tremendously ironic in the current political climate in the EU/US.
The rest is just a whole bunch of whataboutism about how the US is a pompous, warmongering ass, which is true. But it’s no excuse.
if you ever chose to pay attention, you and the public will come to learn about the circumstances that led to this war at some point in the future. ever since vietnam and including iraq, these lessons from history has given us independently verifiable proof years after the conflict that the american government has lied to the public (and always will). history also teaches us that, that proof was always there since the beginning of all conflicts, but the public continually choses to ignore it because of the controlled narrative that people are unwittingly spoon-fed by the consent manufacturing machine that is our media.
if you chose to not pay attention, academics will study and students will learn of the warnings that came before & at the onset of ukraine conflict from people like ambassadors gfoeller, rundell, matlock or secretaries of defense mcnamara, gates, perry and from examples of propaganda from publications like the new york times. all of these are the examples from this article you’ve chosen to ignore in your steadfast adherence to a maga-like willful ignorance that has created this new fascist world that we’re all forced it live within.
Implying libs want to pay attention and not just get pointed at whatever foreigner they’re allowed to call inhuman filthy beasts this time around
Woah woah! They’re called orcs this time!
Not a whole lotta substance in all that text.
@eldavi@lemmy.ml
The NYT isn’t reliable anymore — they’ve been co-opted by the Intelligence apparatus. The NYT has been consistently wrong about this Ukraine situation from the start.
What I stated above is 100% factual if you care to check.
i can see now that the examples i pulled from the article implies that the nyt was trying to warn against the conflict; i’ve changed to wording of my comment to explain that they’ve been a mouthpiece for the government and my intention was to support the fact that proof of consent manufacturing has been around since the beginning like time, life, or newsweek magazines doing the same thing during vietnam.
Nuland was caught picking and choosing who’d be the next leader in Ua and people still say that the maidan was an organic popular movement. I have no hope for our civilisation.
@eldavi@lemmy.ml No worries — I’ve been studying the situation since the lead up to the Maidan. It was obvious, even then, for a critical thinker to see what was happening in terms of the US supporting the colour revolution openly via the ‘Open Society’ framework and USAid. We have to discard Commercial Main Stream Media for our news.
Following up on this, I, personally, believe that in the future we the public should insist that every Independent media source disclose it’s funding sources and advertisers, so one can objectively reason.
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
These links don’t support the thesis „ukraine is dominated by nazis", but rather there are issues with fascists, but on a small level.
Just a small problem of thousands of murdered eastern Ukrainians, and the Ukrainian state’s efforts to systematically suppress their political representation and erase their culture. Which is why the ICJ is investigating it for genocide.
They’re not Nazis unless they come from the Nationalsozialistische region of Deutschland. — Some German on the internet
Didn’t the ICJ already ruled they found no evidence of a genocide? And most researchers also reject the russian claims?
@brucethemoose@lemmy.world Yeah it’s too obvious to be the truth, right? /s
You know whataboutism is invoked when there isn’t any intelligence response to the truth. The new NeoLiberal construct, to deflect the truth. You’re a Nazi supporter. Unfortunately, we have many out west in Canada from the Ukrainian diaspora that came here during the Cold War. They had to be fervent anti-communists to be allowed in. Unfortunately for the rest of Canada, there are many Stepan Bandera monuments out west, wanna talk about that? Stepan Bandera was a Nazi, That’s a fact.
I’ve always compared this invasion to a sexual assault, actually. Aggressors love to say “They were asking for it.”
I’ve always compared this invasion to a sexual assault
Gross
It sure is.
So stop doing it
Stop justifying violence by claiming the victim was asking for it.
Ok, so were the massacres in Donbas the ethnic Russians asking for it? Or does your disgusting, disingenuous reductionism only apply to whichever cause the state department tells you to latch onto?
I’m not
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I’ve always compared geopolitics to pop psychology.
NATO expansion:
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
.
NATO in general:- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
.
Maidan coup & fascist attacks on Eastern Ukraine:- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
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What a disgusting piece of rhetoric bankruptcy, as expected from liberals and gringos most of all.
You know what can be compared to sexual assault? The sexual assault regularly happening to Roma people and ethnic Russians in Ukraine at the hands of Azov and other right wing battalions and paramilitaries in Ukraine, as per the Donbas documentary.
There’s also been allegations of rape and torture in Kursk, and why wouldn’t there be? The CIA trained the Ukrainians in counter insurgency, which is their way of saying terrorism. If you wanna know what it’d look like if they hadn’t defended themselves, look at the West Bank.
The sexual assault regularly happening to Roma people and ethnic Russians in Ukraine at the hands of Azov and other right wing battalions
That is also an issue and has to be addressed. Neonazis and rapists everywhere have to be imprisoned. But the invasion of russia is the wrong way to address this. A democracy and a fair and non corrupt judicial system are the way to go.
If you wanna know what it’d look like if they hadn’t defended themselves, look at the West Bank.
Thats an argument in favor of defense.
A democracy and a fair judicial system is what the Donetsk and Lugansk republics want, which is why they seceded after the Nazi coup. The way to achieve that (after international organs failed to enforce a ceasefire) was through Russian support, and it’s their right to ask for it and good on Russia for supporting them knowing sanctions and war would come to them for aiding them with more than empty rhetoric.
The Palestinian people probably wish they had a neighbor like Russia who’s prepared to engage militarily when it becomes clear that imperialists only fear the violence they so eagerly inflict on the rest of us.
If you think Russia’s intervention doesn’t mean defense, ask yourself why the Ukrainian military was met with popular resistance while the Russian military was eagerly celebrated in Donbas.
Interesting that you don’t /seem/ to be aware of the invaders’ rapes and racism at all. There’s rape and racism everywhere, literally every single where. But sure, tell me how rapes and racism show the inherent evil of Ukraine… surely the kind of provocation that shows “They were asking for it.” This is coming from a rape survivor, btw, can’t shame me out of using it as a metaphor.
Lmao there it is. When there’s credible accusations leveled at Ukraine, suddenly it’s no big deal because everyone does it, but mostly the side you’re against, which isn’t okay.
I’m not claiming the inherent evil of anywhere, I’m not a racist fucking lib. I’m saying there were crimes being perpetrated against the Ukrainian people, and they defended themselves and asked Russia to aid them, which was their right.
Whatever you’ve gone through, it doesn’t make it any less disgusting to weaponize trauma to invalidate the struggle of others. Jewish people went through the Holocaust, it doesn’t make their shouts of antisemitism at the slightest criticism valid, nor does it justify the deflection from their own crimes. But I can’t say I’m surprised by how low gringos will go to paint their incessant war profiteering as virtue.
